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Oh Tats, why do you hate freedom? - Tactical Ninja

Sep. 12th, 2012

09:34 am - Oh Tats, why do you hate freedom?

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Yeah so it's the 12th of September. That means that in other parts of the world, it's the 11th.

On my flist, I'm seeing expression after expression from people, that they just want to be allowed to move on already, but that America isn't letting them. These people are American. People who lost people, or know people who did, who are not able to grieve naturally and move on because of all the sentiment around this date being dragged up again every year.

On this side of the world, I grieve for the way the US didn't deal with this, instead choosing to turn on its own citizens in an ironic destruction of freedom (in the name of freedom), a reduction of living standards (in an effort to prove itself still great by force), and by creating an environment of extremism in which the victims of impotent anger at the country's perceived vulnerability, are the country's most vulnerable people. That stuff echoes around the globe, and has affected all of us.

Acts of terrorism occur all the time. There have even been acts of terrorism on New Zealand soil. Most countries deal with it and move on. Please, US government - can you too? Can you stop forcing your people to submit to ineffective and humiliating 'security checks' every five minutes? Can you stop spending billions on pointless wars and maybe look at improving the minimum wage and providing universal healthcare? Can you stop acting as though saying "We are the greatest country on earth" will make it so regardless of what you do to your people?

Mostly, can you stop browbeating your own citizens in the name of freedom? Nobody else is buying it. Except our bloody prime minister, but he's a knobhead.

Feel free to unfriend me if you think I'm talking out of turn. I care about the people who died in 9/11. I care more about the people who were left behind and what's been done to them because of it. And I also care about all the other people who die in droves daily that don't get a day to commemmorate them.

Comments:

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From:kehleyr
Date:September 11th, 2012 09:54 pm (UTC)
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Can you stop acting as though saying "We are the greatest country on earth" will make it so regardless of what you do to your people? I agree!
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From:forestgreenivy
Date:September 11th, 2012 10:00 pm (UTC)
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Yep, yep, yep. I'm too tired to really make a thoughtful, articulate comment but I really agree with all this. It's especially humbling to see your country from another country's perspective. I do think there are a lot of faults in the American system and frankly... I'm becoming increasingly excited to become a UK citizen. Every country certainly has its own problems but to be perfectly honest, I'm glad to have left the United States. It has been especially messy after 9/11.
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From:tatjna
Date:September 11th, 2012 10:40 pm (UTC)
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Y'know, I had a line in there about how the US could learn a thing or two from the UK about how to deal with and move on from crisis (the LU bombings spring to mind), but I took it out because I lost the asterisk it was attached to.

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From:jaelle_n_gilla
Date:September 12th, 2012 07:39 am (UTC)
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I LOVE the t-shirt. SO British *g*

Germany had a history of terrorism in the 70s and 80s and I remember quite well walking out of crowded shopping malls on christmas time because there was yet another bomb squad walking in. Germans took it calmly, grumbled about lost shopping time, and came back shopping the next day.

Granted, in Germany, the terrorists were Germans, so we couldn't develop any racist attitude towards them and it was kinda hard to single them out. Maybe that's the big difference to the US these days.
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From:jaelle_n_gilla
Date:September 12th, 2012 11:25 am (UTC)
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What?!? Where did you read that? I was just saying then it can't be used by ruthless politicians to polarize their people. o_O
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From:jaelle_n_gilla
Date:September 13th, 2012 07:19 am (UTC)
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I do divide people into terrorists who are simply wrong in what they do and have no right to kill others just because they are different, and ordinary people who do not kill in this context and I don't care what colour their skin is or if they wear turbans or whatever god they think they are doing this for. So I'm obviously one who divides. :)
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From:t_c_da
Date:September 11th, 2012 11:20 pm (UTC)
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The Poms could have taught them a trick or two about handling terrorists as well, as they have been coping with the IRA since the 60s...

Random trivia: the best way to prevent flying window glass from shredding your house interior? Weight the bottom of your net curtains. They catch the glass when it first moves inward from the bomb blast outside before it begins to rotate into flying knives...
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From:clashfan
Date:September 12th, 2012 12:00 am (UTC)

Brits . . .rarely act surprised when that turns out to be not the case

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This bears repeating.

We didn't get attacked because 'they hate our freedoms'; we were attacked because how we act overseas.

Edited at 2012-09-12 12:01 am (UTC)
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From:dragonvyxn
Date:September 12th, 2012 01:41 am (UTC)

Re: Brits . . .rarely act surprised when that turns out to be not the case

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thanks for pointing out the stark similarities between bush and bin laden, it's sad and true... and yes, the world would be better without either of them.
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From:clashfan
Date:September 12th, 2012 02:09 am (UTC)

Re: Why do you hate America? Why do you hate freedom?

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(snert)

Off topic, but I often use those lines whilst arguing for marriage equality. Sadly, it's not as effective as I'd like, but it is amusing.
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From:bekitty
Date:September 12th, 2012 03:32 am (UTC)
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Speaking of marriage equality...

... you can now make submissions on Louisa Wall's marriage equality bill here. And there are ticky boxes! :D
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From:clashfan
Date:September 12th, 2012 04:31 am (UTC)
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Ooh, I'm not Kiwi. I have a bit of a hard time telling other folks what they should do in their own countries--when it's not life or death. But thanks for the invite!
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From:bekitty
Date:September 12th, 2012 04:48 am (UTC)
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It wasn't just for you! It was for everyone who reads Tats's blog, cos I think a bunch of folks here might be interested. :)
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From:missprune
Date:September 11th, 2012 10:52 pm (UTC)
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Well said!
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From:ferrouswheel
Date:September 11th, 2012 11:08 pm (UTC)
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Sometimes it seems like there was never before such an effective of act of terrorism on a country, purely from the government's response, and not from the actual atrocity itself.
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From:dragonvyxn
Date:September 11th, 2012 11:42 pm (UTC)
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anyone who unfriends you for this isn't understanding what you are saying. imo.

i was in nj that day at my mom's house. (i was supposed to fly to the netherlands for a linguistics conference that day... needless to say, that didn't happen) my dad's office was in 2 wtc, and i still have luggage tags with that as our address from business trips. my dad was uptown at the time at weekly meetings they have on tuesdays (that 9/11 was also on a tuesday) my cousin's ex-husband also made it out... he got to work after the planes hit since he was late to work that day. anyway, we know people who died... i'm happy to say that i've moved on even though my dad kinda hasn't, though i think he felt some closure after bin laden was murdered. (i think he should have been brought to trial... my husband does also... part of why i like the guy. believing in due process and justice all the way and not halfway...)

anyway, my dad lost a lot of things that day... friends and colleagues, a crapload of stuff from in his office and a book he was writing. i get why he's not really over it. it's tough when i go there to visit; not seeing the skyline of my childhood is hard... but i'm not constantly reminded since i don't live there. anyway, i agree with you, people need to be allowed to move on and we need to get the govt to get out of war and on to fixing problems at home... i just hope obama gets re-elected because we're pretty screwed here if he doesn't.
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From:decemberthirty
Date:September 11th, 2012 11:43 pm (UTC)
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Another LJ-friend of mine (and a fellow American) posted something today that seems worth repeated here. To paraphrase, he said that it occurred to him amid the endless wave of "Never forget" sloganeering that the thing we should be trying hard not to forget is not the event itself but the world as it was before the event. That struck the right sort of note for me--everyone remembers the little things ("Man, it was so much easier when we didn't have to take our shoes off before getting on plane!") but it's much harder to remember all the shifts in culture and attitude...
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From:clashfan
Date:September 12th, 2012 12:06 am (UTC)
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I agree with most of what you've said here. The parts that I do not echo, are because they're from the point of view of a non-Yank, so it's not my place to affirm or argue--it's how you see things, and you don't need my (or anyone's) validation for it.

There are other things you've posted that I don't entirely agree with, and haven't de-listed you for it. What kind of nob would I be if I couldn't hear a differing point of view from someone I respect?
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From:ms_hecubus
Date:September 12th, 2012 02:20 am (UTC)
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I agree with much of what you said, especially that we are being subjected to an artificial grief. Even the direct victims families are starting to say that enough is enough and it's time to move on. It doesn't need to be a spectacle for people to remember.
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From:polychrome_baby
Date:September 12th, 2012 03:00 am (UTC)
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This is the conversation I had with Russell about it last night as the clock turned over -

Me: Oh crap. Look at the date. Cue the neverending wall of "Never Forget!"
Russell: Huh? (looks at date) Oh. Well.. but I mean, it was kind of a big deal.
M: The only part of it that was a big deal to me, other than people dying because that's sad, was the attempted attack on the Pentagon. That was sort of scary.
R: Yeah. But still, it was a big deal.
M: It wasn't. This sort of stuff happens all over the world, and everywhere else they move on.
R: But that's different.
M: Why?
R: Because it's us.
M: I don't see that. I see it sort of like the shock of realizing that shit can happen here the same as anywhere else. Like one of the Mean Girl school bullies was sitting at her table eating her lunch and someone came up to her and threw her lunch tray in her lap. Now she's all boohooing about how could this happen and whhhhhhy? Girl, you do this shit all the time. You participate in it, you do it, you stand by and watch it happen to everyone else in the school and now it's a tragedy because it's you? What ever.
R: Well, yeah.
M: And I'm not belittling the people that died. That is a freaking tragedy. The same way it always is when people have their lives cut short. I'm just saying this shit was not worth a decade plus of nonstop wars that profit nobody but the richest 1% and destroy the fucking rest of us, and having this divisive fucking "war on terror" plotpoint that has allowed the GOP to steal even more of our freedom from us than they did with the "war on drugs" (not that that shit has ended either, but now it's a big ol'party).
R: I can agree with that.


And that's pretty much how I feel. This shit happens all over the fucking world, but in the US we went completely apeshit over it, and are still going apeshit over it. I mean, a Sikh temple just got shot up because the people worshiping there have brown skin, beards, middle Eastern names, and wear turbans. Who cares that they aren't Muslims? They're all the same! Nevermind the fact that these fucknuts are not any more representative of Islam than the People's Temple is of Christianity. Lighting this fire under Islam as a whole, though? WTG USA! You've managed to take a small group of shitheads and elevate them to martyrs. You've managed to make areas of the world absolutely hate you entirely. You've made PTSD in an entire generation of Islamic children and then systematically told them that you hate them on every level. Good Job! Thanks! Appreciate the effort!
Meanwhile we have whole groups of soldiers who we've left to mop up the mess we insisted they make worse, and have continually sent them so repeatedly into the frontlines so many times that suicide is a massive problem in the military now.

So. Yeah. I have some feelings.
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From:torbenite
Date:September 12th, 2012 01:33 pm (UTC)
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Very well put. the only thing I don't agree with is that there are a vast number of Muslims bent on bring every country on the planet under Islamic law, by whatever means possible, and screw everyone else. They are doing quite well at it too. The guys who flew the planes into the buildings were on the outer extremes.
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From:polychrome_baby
Date:September 12th, 2012 02:22 pm (UTC)
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I actually can't tell if you mean there are a vast number of Muslims bent on bringing every country on the planet under Islamic law, or if you mean there aren't.

Honestly, I've heard both positions to the point where I cant even begin to figure out what's true any longer, and have a hard time caring too overly much considering that I am surrounded by a culture that has a strong belief in bringing their religious law to every country on the planet.
I know people quite close to me who start foaming at the mouth over "Sharia law" when the "Christian law" that they would rather insert is every bit as oppressive (or at least becoming so, there's enough room in both laws for things to be quite progressive and liberal, but that never seems to be the direction the religious fundamentalists take things).



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From:(Anonymous)
Date:September 13th, 2012 12:39 am (UTC)
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I meant there are a bunch of Muslim trying to do this :P

I get what you mean but part of the problem most people just don't care (like you) and as a result these people are allowed to come to power and then they turn around and exert their own brand of religious government on the rest of us i.e. sharia law.

Its stunning how many African states have been allowed to go this way, and Europe is fast turning Islamic, thanks to the lax immigration laws and now the fertility rate of these people is outstripping the locals.

Just saying, is all.
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From:tatjna
Date:September 13th, 2012 02:09 am (UTC)
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I am assuming thos comment is from torbenite, since it comes from the same IP.

I think there's a big fat [citation needed] stamp that needs to sit squarely over the statement about Europe turning Islamic.

I also think that 'exerting one's own brand of religious government' is pretty much what a lot of the right-wing bullshit that's currently happening in the US is about, only it's Christian. Never mind that most Western countries were founded on religious government. Laws about gay marriage, for example.

This is a non-denominational blog and while you are entitled to state your opinion, I'd like to suggest you back some of your statements with fact.
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From:jaelle_n_gilla
Date:September 12th, 2012 07:27 am (UTC)
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Word, Tats!

Politicians are masters at manipulating people with negative associations. I think all this "watch the towers break again" show is just a means to stir racism, in this case against Arabs, and keep the furnace burning for the US military. They want people to support their questionable acts of war and stifle any rational thought about it.

It's not a new concept either, and not invented in the US. The Arabs use the very same strategy, and so did Germany through two world wars, and England for the (thankfully short) Falkland incident. I think we need to go back to the times when the kings and generals rode front line to each war. I truly think that would reduce the number of aggressive actions by far :-(
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From:elven_ranger
Date:September 12th, 2012 12:40 pm (UTC)
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Just to add my support for this as well.
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From:torbenite
Date:September 12th, 2012 01:34 pm (UTC)
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Generally speaking, Americans have become a lot more irritating in the last 11 years.

Glad I'm not the only one who noticed.
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From:tatjna
Date:September 12th, 2012 07:45 pm (UTC)
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I disagree. It's not Americans, it's America. As in the behaviour of its government claiming to be acting on behalf of its people (while actually making their lives worse).

You could say "But the people voted in that government." Except that's like our government claiming the majority of NZers want asset sales and it has a mandate to take action, based on getting just under 50% of the vote and making deals to get a majority, when only 72% of people voted. So they claim to represent us when actually they are only representing about 36% of us, and even then they can't say all of those people want asset sales.

Anyway, yeah. The state not the people.
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From:goffburd
Date:September 12th, 2012 07:25 pm (UTC)
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Agreed, though I must admit that I had hardly any 9/11 posts on here, or on my Facebook, which surprised me a tad.

Talking about sentiment around dates being dragged up again every year. I come from N. Ireland originally, where they're constantly remembering dates far further back than 9/11/01 - 1690 being a favourite for the 'Orangemen', which seems to serve no other purpose than to rile up 'the other side'. I have little patience with overblown patriotism.
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From:chookfair
Date:September 14th, 2012 03:59 pm (UTC)
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I'm American and agree with all of this. It was a tragedy but I think the greater tragedy is how our government reacted to it, and all the freedoms that have been curbed and lives that have been lost as a result.

How Patriot Day is celebrated in my area is pretty disgusting. The memory of it seems to inspire sorrow and pride but also xenophobia and blind admiration for the military. It'd be nice if we could get through one 9/11 without the reminder of bin Laden's death eliciting cheers. :/
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From:meathiel
Date:September 17th, 2012 02:57 pm (UTC)
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Letting them forget about it - never. Why? Because it'd made them think about why they spent billions on weapons and war ...
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