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I trust you but I don't trust him. Yeah whatever. - Tactical Ninja

Jul. 22nd, 2011

09:37 am - I trust you but I don't trust him. Yeah whatever.

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Yes folks, that windchill really is -5. And apparently it's going to stay that way till next Wednesday.

Anyway, this morning Happy linked to this letter on Stuff's agony column. In short, a couple have been married 10 years, the wife has a male friend who has invited her to 'go away' with him to see the rugby. Husband is unimpressed.


If this letter, the replies and the comments are a slice of what the average kiwi makes of such a situation, I now understand yet another of the reasons my marriage failed. Apparently relationships are about control, not love. Let me tell you a story.

I was married once, to a bloke. Typical kiwi bloke in all the right places, yadda yadda yadda. I met him at shearing school, we dated, rest is history.

Now the thing is, he would've responded similarly to most of the comments on there*. And how that attitude played out in our marriage goes like this:

1. Insanely jealous of my gamefishing captain. Apparently the guy only wanted me there so he could shag me. Never mind that I was a good deckie, that we got along well, and that my presence made other female clients feel at ease. Husband's jealousy and assumptions about captain's motivations turned into dislike. Dislike and mistrust was apparent, therefore captain didn't really like husband either, and didn't invite him along very often, oddly enough. You can see how that spiralled out of control really fast. The bottom line was if I wanted to continue pursuing my own interests and friendships I had to piss my husband off. If I wanted to keep my husband happy, I had to lose the friends and interests.

"But Tats! It was only that one situation! You could do other things or have other friends!"

2. My friend Kiri - a lot like me, into active outdoor pursuits, horses, fishing, that sort of thing. We'd go and do stuff together, just the two of us. We'd talk on the phone and hang out in a 'girls together' kind of way. Husband resented the fun I was having with her, decided he didn't like her and that she was 'a bad influence on me' - although it wasn't specified in what way - and that she was a bitch, a slut, and any other insult he could think of. Ultimatum was issued, hilarity ensued.

3. After he'd systematically hated all my friends out of existence, I had no life. He thought I should go out more because I had miraculously become boring, and that I should dress up. So I did. On cue, men notice I'm dressed up, husband gets jealous and starts fights in public. I'm kind of gobsmacked going "But you said .. and I .. and THIS IS NOT MY FAULT!" But of course it was and suddenly I was sleeping with everyone in town. And needed to be punished. I'll spare you the details.

Long story short, I'm here now having a great life surrounded by wonderful people and he's still in Dargaville, driving another woman insane and having the kind of fights you see on the Eminem videos with her. Not me. Thank fuck.

So when I see letters like that one, and it becomes obvious how many people think marriage is about control instead of love, about suspecting motivations instead of desiring your spouse to be happy, about writing to agony aunts instead of communicating openly, I despair. I really am different, and what's 'normal' is fucking horrible.

All you people out there who say "I trust you, it's them I don't trust" - examine yourself. This is bullshit logic. And if you really don't trust your partner, you should perhaps split up with them until you are capable of trusting, of loving, of caring more about your spouse's happiness than your control over their behaviour.

ARGH *HEADDESKHEADDESKHEADDESK*

Just be fucking honest with each other, ok?


* My comment is obvious, bet you can find Happy's too if you look. It totally wins.

So I guess a question - are the stuff comments indicative of the thinking of mainstream society? Because if they are, I'm off to be a hipster. Sans ugly glasses because LAZORS!

Comments:

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From:polychrome_baby
Date:July 21st, 2011 10:03 pm (UTC)
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Yeah. I mean, the vast majority of people seem to feel that marriage is a partnership of two people that then excludes all other importance and interests outside of those two people.

I find it weird, too. Thank goodness, so does my husband. Or else, you know, he wouldn't have really been my husband...
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From:friggasmuse
Date:July 21st, 2011 10:08 pm (UTC)
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It weirds me out that eternal sunshine of the spotless mind is considered a movie about loving people involved in a tragic breakup, when in reality, the two characters are codependent and emotionally abusive to eachother.

I'm sorry that you experienced all that with your ex :/
Glad you're free
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From:rivet
Date:July 21st, 2011 11:06 pm (UTC)
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I'm glad someone else sees it that way!
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From:rantydave
Date:July 21st, 2011 10:28 pm (UTC)
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In 69 comments (irony noted) there were three that I agree with and two of those posters I know personally. And, yes, happy wins the thread - his prize is a picture of a kitten.

My gradually growing belief that NZ'ers are broad minded but just too scared to say so just took a mighty battering. However my belief that I and some (as it turns out) minutely small proportion of the population have got this whole love/relationship/be-together-forever thing worked out right where everyone else doesn't is remaining rock solid.

It's a shame, it really is a shame how many people could be *so* much happier.
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From:danjite
Date:July 21st, 2011 11:23 pm (UTC)
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I decided long ago that I would just have to let the mainstream do its thing and accept that my happiness lay in maintaining enough just awareness of the prevailing paradigm that I don't get lynched.
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From:ferrouswheel
Date:July 21st, 2011 11:32 pm (UTC)
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Well - I didn't read the comments. But the fact the wife hates rugby, with no invite for the husband to ever meet her friend, would make me concerned too. But obviously the relationship has trust issues otherwise he wouldn't be writing the letter. If the women belittles him by calling him an autistic character from a tv show, that doesn't address anything and makes his emotional concerns unheard. That will only breed more mistrust rather than bring them closer.

After my ex I swore I wanted to be honest and sharing about everything, but that's only possible if the other partner is also on board with that (which I'm very glad you are). If they are not, and they belittle them when they try to express themselves, it will result in jealousy or other internal strife... because the one person who should listen, isn't.

I've also tried the whole trusting people to hang out with each other and cheating can happen regardless. Now I've been through all that, I know it's not the end of the world even though it might feel life, so it's not really worth worrying about.
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From:tatjna
Date:July 21st, 2011 11:40 pm (UTC)
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There's one comment in there that's a voice of sanity, in that it points out the only side of the story that's being voiced is the aggrieved husband's. There's no description of what led up to the name calling, or how the topic was broached by him with her in the first place.

"Hey I feel weird about this because I don't know this other person and not being invited is making me feel left out. I'd like to meet him so I feel a part of things."

or

"What the fuck of course you can't go, he's obviously only invited you so you can cheat on me!"

etc

I'm biased, having been on the receiving end of unfounded mistrust and controlling behaviour, therefore I'm inclined to see that first and foremost in the letter.

I'm glad you communicate honestly, it makes petty jealousy impossible. x
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From:tatjna
Date:July 21st, 2011 11:46 pm (UTC)
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PS I would go to a rugby game for the chance to hang out with a friend I'd only seen twice in ten years.

I've been faced with the "I'm invited, my partner isn't" thing a few times and it's always hard - but the rarity of the chance to see my friend would probably swing it for me. I'd like to think I'd be sensitive and compassionate when discussing it though.
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From:fallaras
Date:July 22nd, 2011 12:12 am (UTC)

"Normal" is not... its just the loudest voice that everyone else buys into...

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I am getting sick of the "Normal" BS... the this is what is "right" what "society agrees on".
Its all crap - a case of the loudest voice wins and then everyone starts to listen to and believe the tripe.

But its just that tripe...

Every view probably works for some one somewhere.
Even *ducks for cover* the controlling jealous possessive relationship probably works for some couples. Just like the drinking every night 'cause, the never going to settle down and going to sleep with whoever the f8ck I want one, the me and my same-sex lover one, and the I'll have 2 gay lovers as my partner one, (and about 10 other relationship/life choices that I can think of right now *been reading "My Husband And I Don't Share My Girlfriend" of late.)
They all prob work for someone, but guess what? none of them invalidates or trumps the other!
If my partner and I want to invite a third person in and/or we are both Ok with other relationships, not your fn' issue. Get over it.

"Normal" doesn't exist.
Honest communication, clear expectations, real relationship is what works... not towing the party line cause that's what your "meant to do"

I read the "dear aunt" and the like and all I see are people trying to "make it work cause that's the right thing to do"
I sit in my counselling sessions and hear people exploding because that's not how they want to live, but that's how there partner/mother/father/friend/neighbour/cats vets daughters gyob behaves.
You know what - the only ones POV that matters, the only one who can decide what works for you is... you... (*a)

Mainstream society needs to wake up and realise that while it might be all"one main stream" there are lots of channels that the individual droplets of water can tumble over that work...



(*a) - Like my counselling sessions, the consoler and I are on the same page - "What works for you." My supervisor however is the total "society works, if you do what it suggests it'll all be fine" type :p
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From:caycos
Date:July 22nd, 2011 03:03 am (UTC)
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I guess the trouble with that whole column is that it's set up for the types of responses it got. If they'd asked 'what would you advise this couple do to increase trust in their relationship' the answers might have been less cringe-inducing... Instead because the question was, basically, 'is she cheating on him', if not in so many words, they got the answers you'd 'expect'.

I try never to judge other people's relationships, particularly if I only know one side - because the only people who know what's going on are the people in it. I think my exceptions to this rule would be where I knew or strongly suspected abuse..
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From:thatgirljj
Date:July 22nd, 2011 04:31 pm (UTC)
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This is why I'm so super grateful that my husband does NOT see relationships that way at all. I've dated a lot of men like that and it's always ended badly, sometimes involving assault. Never again. I'd rather be fully and completely alone than with a person who finds it compelling to control their partner.

Not to mention, it seems really insecure. Like it comes from a real place of emptiness.
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From:phaetonschariot
Date:July 22nd, 2011 11:22 pm (UTC)
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noooooo hipsters are gross and racist and misogynistic and ew :(

I left a comment which is stuck in moderation now. Starts with the whole "I've been in this situation too" that the douchebros are doing and then starts in on how my ex used to manipulate and control me. :/
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